Round 1 Sebring 12 H - Sat Sep 12, 2020

@John vd Geest : Is it possible to drive the Bentley ?

 

s397's Sebring is absolutely vicious! It's certainly going to make for an interesting opener!

 

Just going to test a thing:

Spoiler

@John vd Geest
@Nigel Middleton
@Neil Tasker
@Ricardo Gomes
@Marcos Junior
@Paul Anstey
@Rob Vandenberg
@Dino Paolini
@Paulo Lima
@Alexandr Vasiliev
@Barrett Erickson
@Larry Thomas
@Johnny Gutierrez
@Andy Tomlinson
@Peter Williamson
@Rob Milliken
@Jean Michel Loriaux
@Michael LaBelle
@Alexander Zakirov
@David Plummer
@Mark Robinson
@Edward Jones
@Toni Talvitie

Would be nice to get a tidy race start off this time. It would make for an exceptionally cool sight! With Sebring being how it is, formation at the entrance of Sunset (the last turn) seems appropriate, leader of your class on the left as the field approaches the start line.

As someone who's done a million of these starts the trick is to be as close as you can to the car in front of you, without being so close that you have to swerve should the car in front not get away well. The pole sitter has to be as clean as a clean thing on a freshly cleaned plate getting away else they can get swamped very easily. Also, those on the even side of the grid (right, in this case) have the advantage of being able to see the leader go before those directly behind 3rd. So tactics are a very real issue. 2nd place also has to have eyes on the leader as if they are in front as they cross the line, it's considered a jump start.

For reference, this is a good grid formation (timestamp 9:34 if the video doesn't start correctly):

 

yeh didn't start at 9:30.

We need 4 other volunteers to help do a proper version of that start vid you compiled for the DPI season.

 

Hey Eike, John,

Without specifically pointing fingers, can you elaborate on what was wrong with the previous starts that were meant to use this process? It would help clarify things.

For instance, i'm still not clear about the pole sitter moving to the inside line thing. Does this only affect the first row, or are all the odd numbered grid drivers supposed to take the inside? It seems unnecessarily complicating, since the pole sitter has an advantage by dictating the start anyway.

And if there is an advantage or disadvantage to the inside line, shouldn't it be evenly distributed throughout the grid. That is, if the pole sitter is gaining an advantage by being on a different line than originally assigned by the game, 4th on the grid shouldn't be gaining a similar advantage over 3rd, and 6th over 5th, etc..

Really don't want to be a pain, but as long as i'm seeking clarifications, i'm still not sure how we're interpreting this:
"3. the overall pole-sitter stays ON THE SPEED-LIMITER from that moment on."
Does this mean as soon as the faster class pole sitter goes the slower classes also go green? I'm thinking it's class by class.
Then there's:
"5. The rest of the field does NOT overtake anyone BEFORE crossing the start-finish line."
So what if you're 10th on the grid and the guy ahead doesn't go when they're supposed to (i.e., when the pole sitter goes - you can see all the other cars accelerating away but this one is still at pit speed until the Start Finish line)? You can loose a lot of time to the cars ahead thru no fault of your own.

I ask in the spirit of a pre-race drivers meeting. Whatever is intended is how it should be run, i'm just not clear what you thought was wrong with previous starts and what is needed to assure my compliance.

 

Oops...due to family obligations I have to resign from tonight's race.

 

This was why I tagged everyone. The warm up messages work fine as a reminder, but there has been first-lap breaking problems every race that we've tried to implement a very standard formation lap. Last race of the multiclass, there was a GT2 refusing to take the correct grid position, and was on the wrong side of the track, throwing everyone else out and interfering with the first lap battle. Previous race, something else happened, I can't remember, but every race has had some issue where people weren't listening and by the time you get to the middle of the 2nd class, small mistakes make for big disadvantages and confusion.

The leader in each class earned their position and "advantage" by qualifying first. That doesn't mean that the driver in second can't overhaul them into the first corner, especially at Sebring, where the firs corner braking zone isn't large at all. And I gave the other insights to show, as someone who has performed literally hundreds of these starts in sim and real racing, how awesome this race start, when performed correctly, can benefit drivers up and down the field, and that there is a number of good reasons to do it correctly.

I also don't understand how it's a hard concept to understand. Again, take this as an honest question, please, what is hard about it? It's the start procedure Blancpain uses, both in real life and in ACC. IMSA uses a similar procedure, with the only difference the adherence to the start line being the start point; as long as you don't overtake the safety car, you can go whenever. The reason for the pit limiter speed limit for the leader is to give a consistent target for the following pack, giving them an advantage at race start. It worked well in a previous league I've run and made the racing much closer, and slower come T1, making it safer and more exciting for all drivers involved.

 

"I also don't understand how it's a hard concept to understand. Again, take this as an honest question, please, what is hard about it?"

The concept isn't hard to understand, and i like the procedure, but the specifics of the lane swap left me with questions, especially after your post. Again, i think it's an unnecessary complication and i don't even know if it applies at Sebring, but if it's part of the rules i want to comply.

I'm really not trying to be a pain, but one of the things you pointed out is that a GT2 was in the wrong lane at one race. Was that because it wasn't on the front row and swapped lanes, or because it was on the front row and didn't (or has that part been dropped from the procedure - i see it's not part of John's post)?

So here is how i'll be interpreting the procedure, unless i'm corrected:
At this point i'm assuming ONLY the first row should be swapping lanes, because its the only thing specifically said previously and seems less prone to falling apart. But this doesn't fit with the implications of other things said (like the even side of the grid having the advantage of being able to see the pole sitter go, while people behind the 3rd place car do not having a clear view of the pole sitter, etc. - that wouldn't be the case if only the front row swapped lanes, but it would be if that part no longer applies.).

That is my most pressing question. John dealt with the other one (thanks!).

i just want it to go smoothly and not be the one getting it wrong.

 

No no, you're good. Better ask them now and get it right on the night for sure
The GT2 I mentioned qualified slower than the fastest of the GT3's and ended up in the middle of our pack. Rather than taking their place at the end of the GT2 field, they sat in their grid position, despite John's petitions for them to move up, and queued up behind the second place car, instead of on the opposite side, thus throwing the rest of the GT field into more disarray.
You're right too, if we get a full compliment of Senna's, the leader on the left thing becomes redundant as the GT3 leader will start on the left anyway. But essentially the first in each class should have the inside line for T1, whatever track that happens to be on.
To all intents and purposes, it doesn't matter which side you start on, so long as it alternated correctly and the pace is kept until the right point, otherwise we'll have another Imola on our hands.

 

I also have done many of these starts, and it is simple once practiced. Forgive if everyone already understands most of this but I know it as a few simple steps:

1. Pole sets off after green up to 120kmh
2. Pack follows in their qualified positions in single file where they can warm brakes and tires
3. Pole reaches the predetermined form-up point and slows to the pit limiter
4. Cars form up side by side, nose to tail, odds (1, 3, 5, 7) take the turn 1 inside line, evens (2, 4, 6) take the outside line.
5. Pole passes the start line and release limiter to start the race.

The confusing bit is obviously 4, as it needs the sides to be pre-determined per track. Sebring was "Odds left" so qualified positions 1,3,5,7.... would form the left line.
Monza would be "odds right" because T1 is a right turn.
Speeds can change as per co-ordinaters instructions.
I think it could be the multi class thing where the pole for the lower class could of qualified in an even position instead of an odd. In this case all thats needed is for the say GT3 pole to take up the inside line for T1 and P2 to go to the opposite side.

 

Well, what a race. Absolutely beautiful start, was an absolute pleasure to be involved in that. I've watched it back several times just because it was so great to relive. First few laps, it was looking like I was catching the 3rd place Audi... And then the lapping started. Senna's everywhere. And with every car that passed, my tyre temps rose by 5C. Then it took a few laps to get back to a reasonable pressure and temp to be able to push.
Just getting back into the operating range and Sunset struck. A moment too early on the throttle and it was a one way trip into the wall, spoiler and front left wheel completely gone. Fortunately got back into the pits, so a small penalty, all things considered. Back out and a couple of laps later, my shiny new Mclaren got tapped, again into Sunset, nosed into the wall. Wasn't enough damage to pit, but the wheel was way off centre.
Pit came and went without issue, just another 40 secs or so in damage and had a fairly quiet race from then on.
And then Sunset, again. No idea what happened, just went over the same piece of road I'd followed every lap beforehand and understeered right into the outside wall again, got sucked into the tyres, but this time, I passed the pit entry. A whole lap at no more than 100km/h trying to stay out of everyone's way while the car was trying to put me into donuts.
Pitted for another few seconds of damage and away we went. 3 laps down in the end, but a smile from ear to ear. These GT3 cars are absolutely beautiful to drive. Even on a track as punishing as Sebring, there were times when my instincts kicked in and the car responded exactly as you'd think. Cannot wait for the rest of this championship!
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