So did I, but not in the same way. After Qual finished I was busy messaging about track cuts and being used to more frequent racing in RF2, completely forgot the reduced delay timer we have on AC and so ended up sitting in the pits on the green light! Racing off after the pack eventually, my mind was trying to compute my strategy now and not focusing on the actual driving, resulting in a couple spins on the 1st lap . And then I also realised I had not put in race fuel, so a stop for 40+ litres was going to cost me additional time. Trying too hard to make up the lost time ended up in more errors so I was lucky to even finish. A big shame as the car felt really good from the outset of practice and I was looking forward to a competitive run closer to the front than usual.
Yeah I think 3 of us did. I lost my setup a couple times when I changed a setting and overwrite my setup and find it was default settings!? But I managed to remember most settings and managed not to spin this round When is the cut off to go to the grid? because I had time left on the clock.
Had to rush straight out to work after the race. Good fun again tonight. I wondered how you had got so far behind me Ken! Mixed luck tonight. I lost my bottle a bit after the passing frenzy as I was lapped by the field. Very hard to concentrate when two or three cars are bearing down on me. Stayed out too long and my tyres lost all grip. Finally pitted on low fuel but forgot to ask for a refuel (lol). So much to think about... My driving had improved no end - 6 second improvement during tonight's practice and race but you guys are so fast. I'll keep going. Managed to get out of the way of most of you but, again, it's hard to make a sensible choice sometimes when the leaders are so fast. Thanks guys.
We have used a 30 sec delay from the end of Qual, but I've extended it to 60 secs after my mistake tonight! I don't want to do it again
Some disappointment after checking the replay for off-course excursions, especially after the reminder in post #19 above and my pre-race message. In the first 5 laps at Turn 1 only, there were 12 drivers who either cut the entry or ran all four wheels outside track limits between 2-5 times. This is not acceptable behaviour, especially when many of you are very experienced sim racers and have raced on versions of this track many times and therefore know the layout of T1 very well. Issuing warnings & penalties to those drivers could be considered the right course of action, especially by those who drove a little bit slower to intentionally avoid running out of bounds, rather than going faster and hoping they stayed in-bounds. Then again penalising 12 of our more experienced members would seem ridiculous and counter productive for an organisation such as ours. We need to clean our act up guys and remember we all want to see clean and fair racing across the whole field and not assume that transgressions will not be seen or recognised without fear of penalty. Please take heed and play the game as it should be.
I would love to know how people are running these races.. they seem so badly conceived; basically an endurance event in a single seater. If i was consistent i dont think i could have done a full tank last and i know the tyres would barely last 20mins anyway. I do find single seater a bit too edgy to drive and difficult to judge peoples braking... I dont think its entire right to be trying to enforce stricter track limits than the game limits when in session when you havent actually explained what your limits are to us prior to the event. I dont see any screenshots show what you consider ot be out of limts? This is why the third party apps were developed surely?
I would say, making a full tank last is more difficult than making the the tyres last. Although both is probably possible, the question is, is it worth the risk? That is understandable, however even without a notice it seems intuitive that the white line is the limit. I know as an avid race fan, it can be confusing because F1 used to consider the curb as track limit and for example that bollard at the exit of T1 comes from DTM, they had the rule, that as long as you were going to the right of that bollard, you were good. But if I am not mistaken, for SRO races it is the white line. Of course it is easier, when you have an app that helps you but even at RF2 where the in game cut detection is good most of the time, it has its flaws. So I rely at AC races on side kick, which marks your lap time red when you go off. But I am not that sure anymore, how reliable it is. That said, I have also to admit that at the first laps I was fully focused on the battle with Paul, so I did not look much at side kick. In the same way, I did not look in the chat before the race, because I was focused on the race start. I would assume that I had not really a lasting advantage, but I also acept that I could have done a better job. Probably at Zandvoort that will be less of a problem, but for the future I will check if side kick is a reliable source and do a better job regarding that.
Philipp, we had a really good battle in the first few laps. Just to clarify, there is no advantage by going wide on T1. The game slows you down once you go over the curb. The quickest line through that corner is when you just touch the line with your inside wheels. I am not sure why this one was a big deal as even Ken was going wide in the second half of the race(a lot). If penalties were given, for going beyond "Track Limits" in this race, I think there maybe one person in the next race. Maybe two! lol
@Mark Ekins, it's useful to have a look at the Rules and Regulations here. There are things like racing only between the white lines, no esc in qualifying and so on... That doesn't have to be said before every race. Regarding the car: in the first two events, from my point of view, it would be possible without a stop, but slower over the distance. That's probably why everyone stopped for a few liters of fuel. And although my tires were red at the end, they still had good grip. White lines: Personally, I probably only managed to stay between the white lines for 95% of the race. I would say that I already know how to drive a car with precision, but at a cornering speed of 180-190kph, always having the right brake input and turn-in point and also taking into account the changing grip level is not that easy. Then there is the view from the car. These may all be driver excuses, but even in F1 there are a few warnings before punishment. And as @Paul Upham has said, you could not gain any appreciable advantage at this point. I would say a tenth if you take just the right amount of momentum out of the turn and not so much of the cerb on the outside. On the other hand, if you don't follow this rule and the combination of sim and track is not good, you can win more than half a second per round (see Misano). It is a difficult one, but it should be somehow fair for all of us racing and having fun together. Please upload if anyone has the replay. Thanks.
Unfortunately Mark, 3rd party apps are notoriously unreliable for this kind of thing, which entirely depends on the track limits defined with the track files from one developer to another, which is why we turn them off at SRO. You know when you click the box when registering for a series/race to say "I have read, understand, and agree to the SRO Rules and Regulations. By clicking Register I agree to race by these rules." have you not read this? 2.7 Off-Course Excursions The competitor is required to follow the marked course during the competition and shall not gain an advantage by an off-course excursion. 'Off-course' is defined as leaving the marked course with all four wheels. The definition of the term 'advantage gained' will be left up to the sole discretion of the Race Steward(s) and may include when a driver goes all four-wheels-off on the exit of a corner, or was deemed to be an unnatural and/or unrealistic racing line. Should a car leave the track the driver may rejoin, however this may only be done when it is safe to do so and without gaining any lasting advantage. Penalties may be assessed for an off-course excursion that Steward(s) decide affords an advantage to the offender.
FIA Formula 4 races are of 30 mins duration. Our series has 45 min races which including the practice and qualifying time needed, provides something which most people can undertake during mid-week. It also allows for some strategy options for those daring or fast enough .
I'm not counting, honest, but do your 7 offs/cut at T1 during the same period also constitute (a lot) compared to my 4 Paul?
I have been personally called out for criticizing others without admitting liability myself. I admit my race was not perfect and I made several mistakes as did others, but I still feel from reviewing the replay that it was not all about mistakes as there was some clear intent to ignore the track limits or at least not attempt to stay within them by slowing down another few kph, and it needed to be brought to everyone's attention. Whether it gains or gives an advantage depends on various things as already pointed out, but it does not mean that our rules can be disregarded as and when somebody decides to ignore them.
Not racing to the limits would be quite a boring race. I freely admit that i struggled to make T1 perfectly within the lines. I would be the first to admit that it was a struggle but at no time did i deliberately enter the corner with the intent to go wide and gain time. I was coasting for longer and longer periods of time to try and ensure I did not violate but I still did cross a few more times. My problem is that going wide on T1 does not gain you anything and even in F1, If it does not gain you anything then it is not usually taken in to account or any penalties or warnings. Usually it is only a deal if there is a possibility of a gain in lap time. There are tracks that we have raced on in different formats that cutting and going wide has happened rampantly and great gains were made(Misano). Those are an issue! There were no gains made by anyone as far as I can tell. When I looked in the mirror in the first few laps I saw Philipp drop back the more he went wide. That is why I made the comment "Big Deal" for T1. No advantages to be had. I think everyone except Kiril was guilty of pushing wide. My main indiscretion was I did accidently judge the turn in wrong a couple times, and cut that corner ever so slightly but also paid the price because it bounces you all over. That happened because I was trying to adjust my turn in so i didn't go wide. I was coasting the same as I did in practice but for some reason the car was not turning in the same way. I will try even harder next time. I was just commenting that most everyone was just as guilty for gaining nothing. It is my opinion that there are a lot more important offences of cutting or pushing wide, that people did do deliberately in other formats and races. Those would be the ones to really push the point to people. It's hard when the police are breaking the rules too.
We have accepted those terms and conditions but they are exceptionally vage.... 'leaving the marked course' what does that mean? Clearly we all decipher that differently.... T1 could be thought of as the limit as the kurb or being to the right of the post on exit. Kurbs have been considered part of the track across the world. Its only been this year that the MSA in the UK trying to enforce the white lines with any tyre over the line is considered off-track. You do seem quite strict in how you run things here Ken... but help us all if it was made clear what the expectations are. With people having driven these tracks for years/ decades there will be an expectation as to what is acceptable or not.
At all SRO races the white lines define the track limits, not kerbs, and two wheels must be kept inside those white lines at all times. This has been discussed innumerable times before, but I accept it is currently not stated in black & white in our rules. I will look to get that included to ensure future clarity. I'm not singly responsible for running SRO, but for those series I Host I sometimes need to clarify certain things for everyone's benefit to avoid confusion. We have not changed our rules and people who have been racing here for any length of time know what we expect regarding track limits, but I understand that does not cover everyone and as stated I will get this rectified.
Kurbs are considered part of the track, but that is in conjunction with the pre-existing rules in the blue book regarding 1/2 wheels must stay inside the lines. Campaigns to enforce that have kicked off every couple of years s in every event that isn't F1 or BTCC for near enough the entirety of the past 20 years while I've been involved in marshalling. F1/BTCC always seem to weasel out of actually obeying the rules with help from lawyers and TV companies (A good scandal when someone gets an unfair advantage and gains from it is great for ratings). The only real cases where it's an issue in sim racing are where mods have simply put the lines in the wrong places - see the final corner at Sebring as a perfect example. In reality the limits are defined by the sodding great concrete walls (the white lines are inches from them ), in the sim someone draw a race track through the middle..
