rFactor 2 Round 3 Birmingham Superprix - Sat Mar 18, 2023

Discussion in 'BTCC 1990 Championship Closed' started by John vd Geest, Feb 2, 2023.

  1. John vd Geest

    John vd Geest Administrator Staff Member Donator

    Me and the other admins will discuss what to do with the results, influenced by the track bug that gave a stop and go penalty to Paul and Oussama.
    So the current results that are posted for this event are provisional for now. We will get back to you all as soon as we (the admins) agree on a course of action.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  2. Mark Hightree

    Mark Hightree Administrator Staff Member Donator

    In John's defense, he clearly defined the track bug in the pre race notes. It seems most drivers took note of that and did not receive any penalties.
     
    • Disagree Disagree x 2
  3. Oussama Knani

    Oussama Knani Pro Driver

    There was no way of avoiding this bug close to barrier or far away from it, its random and its not our fault, john is already aware of more details about the bug, its completly random you can go ahead and watch the vod, the moment i got it i was far from the barrier same as paul, and problem is you don't get a penalty point u directly get a stop & go
    and there is no way of avoiding the penalty because as soon as the warning shows on ur screen, half a second later you get the penalty so not even time to process & slow down.
    the way i see things should have gone, is as soon as the bug was discovered the race settings should have been changed to remove track limit rules (since this is a street cuircuit with no where to cut the track its okey to do so) rather than deal with the aftermath of a faulty track mod converted from an older game engine to a newer engine with a modified track limits system.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  4. Paul Upham

    Paul Upham Pro Driver

    Mark, I am not sure if you know this bug or not. It is random! I watched the replay over and over and there were people going closer to the barrier than me and they did not get the penalty. The other thing is that it did not assess points it just gave a ridiculous 43 sec stop & Go. It is not really fair to say we did not take note of what John said. I agree with Oussama that knowing, there is nowhere to actually cut the track, and that fact that this bug is random, the penalties should have been disabled for this race only. It is not right when we take this stuff seriously, it is being broadcast and contenders for the championship are taken out from no fault of there own. That is the only reason I kept racing was because, to me, this was obviously something totally out of our control, and I thought the positions would have been adjusted accordingly. I will continue as I enjoy the competition with my fellow racers but I would be more upset if I was in the battle for #1 in the championship.

    Just my thoughts!
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  5. John vd Geest

    John vd Geest Administrator Staff Member Donator

    Decision final result for Bridgehampton

    I have discussed the issue below with 2 other admins and the 3 of us came to the following conclusion:

    First of all, it is my fault for organizing a race on a track that has a bug. But I felt it was too late to change the track and we just had to drive around the problem. Furthermore, this track will not be used again.

    Paul and Oussama got a Stop & Go penalty from the cut track bug that I warned of before the race on the forum. This was not a random bug as suggested that you might, or might not get by coincidence. I pointed out where the bug was and how to avoid it.
    All the other drivers avoided the bug except Paul and Oussama. Therefore, it was avoidable.

    Oussama suggested letting the race end 5 minutes before the actual end to reinstate the positions as they were at that moment, letting that be the end result.
    This is not realistic, as we can not predict that the final result would have stayed like it was 5 minutes prior to the finish.

    In conclusion, we feel bad for Paul and Oussama, but the race results stay final as they are now.
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
    • Friendly Friendly x 1
  6. Paul Upham

    Paul Upham Pro Driver

    John, the bug is random. I set up race and did 10 laps going as close to the barricade as I could without touching it and did not get one warning or penalty. It is a pity about this bug because that is a really fun track and it would be fun to race again. All we need to do is turn of the penalties on that track only.
     
    • Informative Informative x 1
  7. Oussama Knani

    Oussama Knani Pro Driver

    Naa dont feel bad for me.
    your just taking a shortcut from responsibilitiy
     
  8. John vd Geest

    John vd Geest Administrator Staff Member Donator

    Well, the final argument about this should be that I'm to blame for all this confusion and that however much I would like you both to finish the race without the S&G, we can't turn back the clock and take a guess on what the final result would have been. We, including me, just have to take this one on the chin.

    Thanks for your positive attitude.
     
  9. Mark Hightree

    Mark Hightree Administrator Staff Member Donator

    It's ok John. You do a great job and we appreciate your effort and I never see you "shortcutting" anything. The opposite is true. I think some forget this is a hobby for admins and we have day jobs.. This is a free service, paid for by very few members who donate. We often do not cover our expenses through donations, so the owners, John being one of them, generously donate their money but more importantly their time. respect and gratitude. :)
     
    • Like Like x 3
    • Agree Agree x 1
  10. Paul Upham

    Paul Upham Pro Driver

    Very True Mark. I agree and I totally accept the admins decision. I do not lay any blame and I have no hard feelings towards the admins. I was upset that the random penalty gods chose me as one to be sacrificed.
    In my reply to the decision, I was only trying to say that, as far as I can see, it is random, because I cannot replicate in a race scenario and in the replay there were many people going close to the wall there but only two penalties were given.

    It's in the distant past now. We will survive...lol
     
    • Like Like x 3
    • Sportsmanship Sportsmanship x 1
  11. Oussama Knani

    Oussama Knani Pro Driver

    In other leagues where they don't ask for donations on their website and do invest in their project because they love it, if a race was done on a faulty track, the drivers are never blamed for falling vicitim of a bug.
    instead the race result is deleted all together and no points are awarded to anyone.
    In our case where the bug is actually random, your saying if people go 3 wide on staright finishline and the only way to avoid being giving an unjust penalty is to compromise their race by slowing down or moving away from the bug or lit just take on the bug and compromise their race, as a competitor the least you expect from a league is to serve justice and not say we already defined the bug (inaccuratly) in a track we knew is broken and after knowing all of that not even thinking of what to do to limit the damage, and then say its your fault especially if your fighting for championship.
    and last point is your broadcasting this championship so the fact that you have a fight for the championship and not seing the ammount of content your getting for free from us racing door to door, litteraly destroyed by what you are doing.
    i'm not gonna try to justify anything anymore its all over now youv proven your point the moment asking for a formation lap became an insult.
    like i said im moving on from this championship i will use the time that i would invest here to another league and wish you all the best of luck.
    Congratulations to Kiriil he won it fair and square. and i advise the admins to review their actions/statements
     
  12. Oussama Knani

    Oussama Knani Pro Driver

    we are alsso giving you content for your youtube channel, so your saying we dont have life/work to do? i lit had to call off my work on saturday to make it for silverstone and keep the championship alive. im not gonna win anything if i win the championship btw.
     
  13. John vd Geest

    John vd Geest Administrator Staff Member Donator

    Thanks for your reply Oussama. The final word has already been said about this.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  14. Kiril Kirilov

    Kiril Kirilov Pro Driver

    Oh wow. I know it's frustrating when a track bug ruins the race. I had this recently when I raced the Imp. Leading the race I had no idea that the track is in heaven and that it takes so long to fall in the pit lane again. But the admins invest so much time to show us so many new tracks and cars and it can happen that some are not that good. On my side I had no problems at all after avoiding the side wall.
    @Oussama Knani, I don't know what John promised you if you win the championship, but I want that too! :D Seriously, it sounded on the broadcast like it wouldn't make any sense to you to race with us if you don't win the championship. I enjoyed our race before I made the mistake and I hope you will join us again for the next races.
    And just a reminder from me: please see the Rules and Regulations on SRO.
    And especially this one: "The use of the Esc. key in Qualification"
    John actually posts it again for each event.
     
    • Like Like x 3
  15. John vd Geest

    John vd Geest Administrator Staff Member Donator

    Really? I missed that ... :D.
    I think it's a bit childish when we can't trust someone to follow the rules. Still, I'm glad most people are mature about it.
     
  16. John vd Geest

    John vd Geest Administrator Staff Member Donator

    I just want to let Oussama know that any post with insults will get deleted by me and could result in a ban from the site.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1

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