rFactor 2 Special Event INDY 125

Discussion in 'rFactor 2 Club Events' started by Ken Jagger, Apr 4, 2019.

  1. Ken Jagger

    Ken Jagger Administrator Staff Member Donator

    As far as I know all our rF2 servers are set to show but never penalize
    • Informative Informative x 1
  2. Nigel Middleton

    Nigel Middleton Administrator Staff Member Donator

    We have black flag only on all RF2 servers.
    Last edited: Jun 9, 2019
  3. Denis Eshchenko

    Denis Eshchenko Pro Driver

    Thank you all for the race! This was my second indy500! There was a lot of struggle, mistakes and breakthroughs, but a couple of stupid moments cost me high positions.

    Does anyone have a replay file from the race?
    • Like Like x 2
  4. Caitlin Penny

    Caitlin Penny Pro Driver Broadcaster

    That's an issue, and it's why staying on the lead lap is so important in oval racing. The problem is that if you don't get out of the way, you end up taking all of the leader's air through the corners and seriously hampering the leader.
    • Agree Agree x 1
  5. Andrew Williams

    Andrew Williams Pro Driver

    Impossible to stay on the lead lap, even when you are leading the race, and then pit under green flag.
  6. Jens Roos

    Jens Roos Pro Driver Donator

    Staying on the leading lap seems difficult in a oval race depending on pit stop strategy and "luck" with SC and so on, so how should the SRO rules regarding blue flags be applied in oval races?

    In a oval race specific, let's say you on a different strategy. If the car behind is just a tiny bit faster but doesn't manage to overtake on their own . Do you have to let him pass if you have the blue flag for a couple of turns?

    Have watch a few oval races IRL (on TV), but have not noted how that is handled in these races.
  7. Caitlin Penny

    Caitlin Penny Pro Driver Broadcaster

    I'm actually not sure, but you're right that it's impossible to stay on the lead lap. I was a lap down for about one straight at one point in the race.
    Still, it's so hard to follow round the corners that finding yourself behind a backmarker can be a real hindrance.
  8. Ken Jagger

    Ken Jagger Administrator Staff Member Donator

    One of the skills to learn with ovals is that of passing any car, whether you are lapping or racing for position. I disagree with Caitlin regarding running the race for the benefit of the leading cars. The final result is about the last stint to the flag, so constantly giving way to faster cars will hit you hard later in the race. Our standing SRO rule is that it is the responsibility of the passing car to make the pass safely. It's not up to the car being passed to either move out of the way or compromise their own race for the sake of giving the passing car a gift pass. IRL you do not see cars moving off line in Indycar racing to allow that. The faster cars position themselves appropriately to make the pass in a safe manner, usually after the turn or well before, so as not to compromise the slower car.

    Our rF2 servers have Blue Flags set to show but never penalise, so they are for information only. Of course if you are being lapped on ovals it's easy enough to let it happen safely without moving off line by a gentle feathering off-throttle if necessary to help the move. Once committed to the turn-in it is unwise to then try and change it, which the passing car should respect and not try and force the issue. Of course if we find after the race that somebody has been particularly and intentionally blocking a passing car, then we will take post-race action and have done so in the past.
  9. Jens Roos

    Jens Roos Pro Driver Donator

    I will accept any rules applied here at SRO but find this a bit confusing when it's not very clear or consistent. I see nothing strange in two or more different rules, one for ovals, road and multiclass. In ovals and without being committed in details to real racing rules, no lift or blue flags are applied. It's all about the car behind to make the pass safely, without help.

    But for road and not when talking multiclass overtaking GT class, the car being overtaken should within a few turn either move out of the way or safely lift so the car behind can overtake, just as in real life racing. If not a penalty should be applied from race control (i.e rF2, not possible in AC?). The car that is overtaking should not need to fight for that position, the rules should be very clear about that. Penalty during the race would have the right impact, in single class road race you will have to accept that loss in lap time and would also mimic real rules. It up to the lapped car to create that safe opportunity to let the car pass, not to do it if possible and if the driver feels like it.

    If it's only a recommendation as one could read the rules as, that should be clear as well so everybody knows it's ok to stand your position even if being lapped.

    I'm just asking for to it to be as clear as possible, if their is one rule only and you have no obligation to let a car on leading lap a free pass?
  10. Ken Jagger

    Ken Jagger Administrator Staff Member Donator

    That's not what I said. Our rules are clear on who's responsibility it is to make the pass safely. Of course anybody being lapped can reasonably be expected to assist that process, but they do not have to jump out of the way to avoid upsetting the aero of the passing car, as has been suggested. If we tried to write the rules to cover all the myriad of potential scenarios/situations that can arise, in an oval race particularly, then it would be totally over the top.

    With rF2 specifically, the program code for blue flags penalties is far from perfect, hence why we use it for advisories only. Generally it seems to have worked better with the penalties off than before when we had them on. Nearly every race with them on, we had complaints from members about getting unfair penalties. Common sense has got to be used by everyone in these situations.
  11. Caitlin Penny

    Caitlin Penny Pro Driver Broadcaster

    Thanks for clarifying.
  12. Jens Roos

    Jens Roos Pro Driver Donator

    With reference to the posts in this and other threads happening rather frequently regarding blue flags and to be sure I remember correct I checked the SRO rules once more, the meaning of the blue flag is actually very clearly stated:

    2.4 Blue Flags
    A blue flag displayed warns the driver that he is about to be lapped by a faster car and must let it pass. A driver may incur penalties if he ignores displayed blue flags.

    The rules are also very clear that:
    2.6 Flag Observance
    By default blue-flags are regarded as information-only, not as a mandatory move-over, within Sim Racing Online events. However, if the Blue Flags rule is in place for the specified event, the lapped driver must move over for lead lap cars as soon and as safely possible.
    Blue flag means there is a faster car approaching.
    When you see a blue flag stay on your racing line it is up to the faster car to pass you.

    I admit I was wrong here, the rules are very clear and suit oval racing very well. To be honest in single class road races I have been a bit annoyed sometimes when fellow racers that are a lap down or two are racing for position or interfering the race of position at the leading lap. But unless clearly stated in the specific event, it's up to the individual driver to make that decision.

    Agree that the penalty system in rF2 might not be a good solution, but I would prefer a more common class specific rule set (oval, single and multiclass) but each admin is free to add that in the specific event as of today. If the rules ever would be revised in the future I'll be happy to give constructive feedback and suggestions if that would be of any interest.
    • Like Like x 1
  13. Ken Jagger

    Ken Jagger Administrator Staff Member Donator

    We might actually need to slightly revise the text of this rule as it seems to contradict itself a little by saying on the one hand "move over" and then saying on the 2nd "stay on your racing line". We have always advocated that drivers should stay on the racing line so that faster, passing cars are not surprised by an unpredictable late move to assist the passing. However there is no problem if somebody who is carefully monitoring the situation of approaching cars makes an early move, in plenty of time to leave the path open.
    • Like Like x 2
  14. Denis Eshchenko

    Denis Eshchenko Pro Driver

    Heeeeeey, people!
    Please, give me a replay file from race).
  15. Nigel Middleton

    Nigel Middleton Administrator Staff Member Donator

    Regarding blue flag we have them off but as you may be aware they can be on automatically on, Some tracks that the modder has built them in, We do not adjust any files in tracks or mods.
    Last edited: Jun 12, 2019
    • Informative Informative x 1
  16. Norman Bruce

    Norman Bruce Pro Driver

    • Agree Agree x 1

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